Nimmy's comment in my post on Feminism made me wonder why women call staying at home and taking care of their children a sacrifice, and why some women who work hard all day still feel guilty. This is why.
A senior citizen I know, once told me she wanted her daughter-in-law, in the US to quit her full time job and to find something to do from home, because with both the son and the daughter-in-law working, they hardly get any time together. She said she told her daughter-in-law, when she visited them last, that she better decide soon as, "This won't do."
I suggested, "These days most couples are working, I am sure they will find someway ... maybe whoever is earning less considers something part time ...." .
"How can HE leave his job, he is the husband, this is not how things are done ... I have spoken to her, she should know her priorities ..."
I was totally impressed! "You mean your daughter-in-law is earning more!! He is an Investment Banker I thought he must be earning a lot! She must be brilliant!! What does she do?"
She explained.
I was still gushing, "Times are changing, Indian kids waste their youth for their careers! You have seen my daughter! She is working so hard, she hardly has a 'life', she stays up till late, you have heard me crib about her crazy hours? I wonder how she would feel if she has to give it all up! Who knows what happens in life, in future? Girls should be self reliant too, I am sure your daughter-in-law must have really worked to reach this position ... there has to be a more balanced solution ... and aren't they making good money? "
"Money isn't everything. My son says, he misses the way hot food waited on the table when he got home from school, I was so well read, but I was content to just look after them ... "
"LOL I am sure your daughter-in-law misses hot food on the table too :) These days parents love both girls and boys, they are brought up to be self reliant ... they will find some way to make it work in a way that suits them both."
"Girls should know their careers are not as important as their husbands. Men have egos."
"I don't know, I have seen my dad support my mom and generally if one person is happy while another is forced to give up her dreams, will they be happy? Why not let them decide?"
"When we are there, all day we are alone, there are no maids. .. and living in India I am just not used to doing any house work ... and this younger son of mine, he was very close to me, I got the cook to make whatever he liked to eat, now he cooks dinner, I don't mind that but ..."
I wanted to ask if his wife wasn't brought up the same way too? But I did not argue.
I could not get this daughter-in-law out of my mind, and later asked a close friend, a successful professional, (without revealing any names) what she thought of such a situation, and why did it bother me so much.
She said, "IHM if she is pressurized to give up her job, do you realise how resentful and bitter she might become? Why force her to sacrifice!!! These days my husband stays with our son, on leave, because I have to go for this seminar ... I have worked so hard to reach here, my success is a part of me, it makes me feel so good. ... but it would have all been so difficult if my husband hadn't been so supportive. I would do the same for him, any day."
She kept her word. Today, because she is doing so well, her husband is able to dare to start a new venture, she will never read this blog, but my best wishes to them :)
But wait, the story doesn't end here. The Mother-in-law I mentioned above went to the US again, and do you know which bank her son was working for? Lehman Brothers. He is not unemployed, he is doing very well still, but this time when she called she didn 't say anything about about her daughter-in-law giving up her job.
Monday, November 17, 2008
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just read your blog..going out..will comment later
Sunder Look forward to reading your comment :)
"but this time when she called she didn 't say anything about about her daughter-in-law giving up her job. "
haha that cracked me up. I wonder when women will learn to not pull women down.
I really appreciate your attitude towards both sexes. I am sure you will make a cool MIL.
I like I like I like.... this post v much!!! My questions exactly! We might go on about the Indian Male Ego.. ergo.. :D! But then who fuels it, and who finally is the one darned impediment [?? dunno if that is a right word to use, I wanted to use something stronger!]?? Another woman!!
Still, there are another hundred, for this one MIL that you met and interacted with, who are entirely different! Have met a few, and they keep the hopes alive that all is not lost yet!
More, on the sacrifice angle. There are ever so many very well qualified women who have voluntarily given up "careers", for the sake of kids / husband, quality time with both. And I do know at least two who are happy doing that! That makes such a difference! Still, sadly though, as your post indicates, the general impression is that it must be a sacrifice, offered by the woman, always, here!
And finally, nothing that is thrust upon one will ever bring comfort to one, isn't it?
A thought-provoking post!
@Shilpa I had been so annoyed, it just made me feel grateful that the poor girl will not be harassed anymore.
Yes sometimes our little conveniences can make us very selfish. I think one simple way to be a tolerable mother in law in India would be to not assume any authority to tell a young woman who happens to love our son, how to live her life. And also how to love our son :)
Usha Pisharody I hope I have not been judgmental, just wanted to state what happened. And the fact that it did disturb me.
...she too I am sure, I know, is not a bad person, it's just that tradition has convinced her that she has the right to dictate how her daughter in law and son live their life ... I guess.
Wow! I cringed when reading how the mother-in-law was treating her daughter-in-law. I hope the husband had the love and good sense to diplomatically support his wife in that dispute.
Women must be free to decide for themselves whether they will be working mothers or SAHMs. For one thing, how can you raise children who become competent citizens and the staunchest defenders of freedom if their mothers are forced by custom or law into one path or another? What kind of message does that send children?
@IHM,
So finally the Mother-in-law, learnt her lesson..........
Great ending, or should I say "beginning" to that particular couple's story.
The answer to this question is very simple in my mind.
If both wanna work, then both should.... no two ways about it.
I also get remindered of something my grandfather used to say all the time.
"Be occupied all the time, whether it be work, arts or something else, only then you will be happy when you get old".
Great Article!!!!
Phew! We and our standard narrow minded thoughts! My cousin has just gotten married in to a family where her husband and in laws told her the very first day that she is not supposed to work come what may.. she was a s/w engr and had to leave her job as soon as her wedding got fixed. they explained that she should be well educated in order to be able to give her children adequate help in studies. I found this very disturbing... i think its ok if she is asked not to work once she has kids but right now, its a little unfair to ask her to stay at home and do nothing but be a doting wife waiting for the husband who works for nothing less than 15 hrs a day! I wonder how the girl agreed to get married to him. I would have never done that!
From childhood, our parents insist that we should score the best marks, always stand first and study well, why? to get us married to some guy who thinks a woman who works is good for nothing but to cook and take care of his children?
Loved the last line. Doesn't that say a LOT?? As for me I think your words, "..THEY will find some way to make it work in a way that suits them both." is the answer.
Good post. And yeah, I am back on the scene. So let me see about the tag now! :-)
That situation isn't uncommon and wouldn't surprise a lot of us in India at least.
I'd like to add one more thing about why SAHM consider staying at home a sacrifice. And why I think so too.
The woman is seen as the nurturer and is supposed to put being a mother before everything else in life. However, we women do spend a large part of our lives building careers. And motherhood is no longer a natural culmination of things for a lot of us. It is a well deliberated step in life, taken keeping in mind the economic conditions of the family, among other things. And the child is born to parents - both the father nad the mother. So why is that choice to stay at home usually made by women only? Why is it that we won't even raise an eyebrow if a career-oriented woman gives up her job to take care of her baby? Is taking care of the child not the father's job as well?
It is indeed a sacrifice if a woman gives up her flourishing career to stay at home.
Life automatically got back with a vengeance at Madame MIL...
Glad the DIL could continue working.
I am quite puzzled? in the sense how parents or inlaws can dictate how we should live..mm thats how we are..
When my mother was looking for a girl..i told her dont look a DIL for you ..look a wife for me...it was a struggle for me...when i choose a carrer oriented girl, my mother and uncle tried to brainwash me , not to choose a career oriented girl....you know how marriage are looked at by elders.when the son gets a job out of the city , the next think they say is we will get him married , so that he wont struggle for food..hmm
My MIL used to say to me...you are very fortunate to marry my daughter..since she not only brilliant in her career , but verygood in household chores also..
One day i told..i dontdeny what you say..but what you think the qualities like cooking , housekeeping contributes only 20% of happiness..the other 80% is something i cant express...if i want good food, good housekeeping, i can afford to buy that...but relationship of husband and wife is beyond that...
Yes it is a struggle for career oriented girl..that why when u tagged me for feminism, i just reproduced my earlier blog...
The problem here in commenting compared to Y360 - we dont get to see the blog when you are writing the comments...
oh as far as salary is concerned , i will be happy if my wife earns more since jatha ash kar saktha na..i did a poll on this in yahoo360..not many participated..may be you can conduct a poll..to me salary of spouse does not matter..
IHM: Nice subject and its Good write up. But you did not touch the subject of kids, the day care, the duties in the kitchen, the backyard, the cleaning of the bathroom and the concept of joint family. All these new challenges in the new world can be sorted out provided couples sit together and find out what is the best in the interest of family. In my opinion communication is the best medicine to address these issues.
best
anser
Paul I cringed too. It had upset and bothered me that educated people can behave like this.
Ajit Yes in this case the girl was lucky! Totally agree with your grand father, empty minds are devils workshops, and people who have nothing to do, find ways to make life hell for others.
Rohini This is one thing I learnt from my sis in law, she says 'if a guy seems jealous of you, don't marry him' ... My mom was clear that (twenty years ago) we were not getting married into joint families. Should do a post on these 'no, nos'! This is my next post.Thanks for the idea :)
Shail Glad to see you back, and knowing you are a feminist [err you don't mind the word?] I am dying to read your post :)
D Yes I see your point, you are right!! Nimmy's comment had me thinking too ... I understand when you say, if it is not a sacrifice because 'And the child is born to parents - both the father and the mother.' and she should not be taken for granted too!
Mampi I got the same feeling when I heard! I wish life was always like this.
Sunder This is why I always say, Indian parents are selfish when it comes to their sons, they want a daughter in law for themselves, not a wife for their son. And Your reply to your mother in law is really sweet, she must have been most delighted :)
anser azim The couple has no kids as yet, and I hope she sorts this thing out once for all, she should speak to her husband, maybe she has done that ...don't know them very well.
I agree they should communicate and decide on their own. I am sure eventually they will.
I just have one problem with this "whoever earns less" because you can have the exact same qualifications, say an engineering degree, followed by an MBA but just the fact that you are younger and have less experience in the corporate world might be responsible for you earning less. Whose dreams are more precious now?
Also if I am a teacher or a journo, I will never earn as much as my husband...
I recently read results of a survey that verified that the woman's job is always considered more flexible by both the partners. example cases when the husband was a doctor and woman a professor, and woman a doctor, husband a professor, and in both cases, both the partners said, wife's job is more flexible.
I hate it when the argument from men 'I would have loved to stay at home but we cant manage in your salary'. Not only are women made to sacrifice, they are made to feel selfish for not enjoying their time at home. And the earn less factor will always be there because of age difference, society expectations where even women want to get married to guys who are better settled...and because women still choose careers like teaching and earn less just because it will allow them to take care of kids
Its just a vicious circle
The concept of balancing work and family was not prioritised by men earlier and women are doing the same mistake now, I guess.
Destination Infinity
I hope the lesson was learnt & the MIL does not go back to her old ways once things are smooth again...
It is the family members themselves who make a woman feel guilty about not doing enough for the house or her family. Comments like: Oh my son/ grandchildren hardly get to eat 'Garam Khaana', the house is always a mess..etc, etc..But I guess most working women learn to ignore such comments most of the time..
But there are always two sides to a coin
On the positive - women still have a choice- if they choose to stay at home there are no eyebrows raised but if men 'choose' to be house-husbands or Stay At Home Dads, I am sure most people would tag them as kaam- chor..
One might enjoy having a choice to stay at home or work..But once this choice is made & one does choose work ,then after a while comes another choice- esp. when a career advancement of one spouse involves relocation etc.. Its "your career v/s mine"..well in that case I guess its the women who take a backseat & that I think is a sacrifice.. Of course one may argue that the couple can commute and meet on weekends as is now happening in Hyd-bangalore, mumbai-pune etc..And a woman might choose either way. She might feel that the additional time with the family is worth the sacrifice. but I think it is still a sacrifice albeit worth it.( sorry for taking so much space)
Oh Im so glad that this story had its resolution in 'this lifetime'..for so long you have to wait out a generation or more for people to 'get it'...one good thing coming out of the coming economic crisis, hmmm. I heard of similar 'positives' after the dot com bust.
Am waiting for the day when i can be a house husband, cook, clean home and change nappies. And my wife will bring home the bread ;)
I am glad the MIL learned her lesson, albeit the hard way.
This has happened to me too. My own parents wanted me to do more for the home and the 'I come home tired too' argument made no sense to them. 'Your home should come first'
is what I was told.
Now the husband is thinking of b-school next year. Obviously he will have to move and everyone assumes I will too. No matter that I am happy here and it will be tough to find a new job in this economy elsewhere.
But I am perhaps to blame too. I think of my work as a job, not a career. I have no burning ambitions, I prefer the simple pleasures and like to enjoy each day as it comes. So I am glad I have the choice not to work when I choose to. I *want* to be home for my kids, for a while at least. I make no secret of my views either. So I guess I give others a chance to treat my career as *secondary*.
Come to think of it, even I never questioned the fact that I'd move and change jobs to be with the husband until now. Perhaps it's best not to think too much about these things. As long as we are both happy. What do you think IHM?
@ Ajit & IHM
Was (is) the girl really lucky? And is this a genuine happy ending or beginning as is being suggested.
Is this not a grudging decision, taken out of compulsion and the current financial slowdown - what is there to suggest it has been driven by a change of attitude.
A criminal always stops his crime when there is greater police patrolling/ vigilance. Does that really mean his heart has changed?
Love reading your posts.Gives strength to all of us to stand up for ourselves.
Lol about what happened in the end.
that Lehman brother part was a good twist.. Like nemesis...life has a way of getting back.. sooner or later..
This situation of forcing the DIL not to work is not very uncommon...the husband in this case looks supportive.. god bless him and all supporting husbands till better judgment prevails..
So now she doesn't think the wife should give up her job? What happened to togetherness? What happened to the couple spending time together? What about hot food on the table? What about the male ego?
I'm so glad money was not a factor in influencing her change of views. That would really make me cynical. ;-)
Cheers,
Quirky Indian
http://quirkyindian.wordpress.com
I am speechless... this is the story of everyday in Indian scenario... but u know what the hubby the men of this generation are changing and I think thats a big big first step toward attaining the equality... my hubby has helped me out in putting leaves when I need to be in office... changing diapers in the night when i have been exhausted in the day, we cook together in the night, basically taking care of the kiddo and the house along with me and not making realize that its a favor and see more and more men like this these days and that gives a positive ray of hope...
ya the mils are probably still the same mine has a problem with all this too she sometimes cribs that my son had never done all this before and politely tell her that neither had me :) she is slowly learning to accept it
what we need to accept is the fact that WE DO HAVE A CHOICE AND IT SHOULD BE COUPLE'S CHOICE.... we need to have strength to stand up against the force and I think it will change and improve slowly... it already beginning to happen...
PS:sorry for hogging too much space some topics are dear to heart
Tearsndreams I agree, earning more is not, should not be the criteria. Our dreams can be way higher than the money we earn. I suggested it without really thinking ... I wonder what the solution is, here I just wanted to show what happens and why women think giving up a job is a sacrifice. generally a forced sacrifice.
Destination Infinity This isn't just about balancing job and home, it is also about trying to 'control' another human's life.
N Yes I agree, it is really sad. Men should be able to choose just like women. This is why I wrote in my last post, that men also benefit from feminism. Equality and justice are for all.
Aneela Z After World War I also women started wearing trousers and working in factories :) Just hope she takes no nonsense.
Philip Men do need this choice too. And you will find enough men who prefer to stay back, maybe guys who love to paint, work on the net etc will choose to stay back and mind the kids - it's going to happen.
Devaki I am a homemaker too. You have not been forced to do something you are unhappy doing, so enjoy the comfort of a just doing a 'job' and switching your jobs with his career. I have picked an odd job on and off, and moved many times with my husband, and loved the change, maybe more than even him :)
Does it matter You are right She is not really lucky. She will be lucky if she makes it very clear to her MIL that this decision belongs to the couple and is none of the MIL's business. I also am sure her parents will not just let her b controlled like this.
monika.ansh :) Thanks!
Iya Yeah I hope the husband is supportive :)
Quirky Indian "I'm so glad money was not a factor in influencing her change of views. That would really make me cynical. ;-)" ROTFL !!! Our Indian family values are never swayed by money ;)
Monika Yes that is why I mentioned my friend, who has her husband's complete support. I know many, many women who are doing very well, because they do have their husbands by their sides. This MIL's attitude shocked and disturbed me.
ha ha. the last paragraph was the killer.
Totally annoying and cringe worthy to see how people look upon working women. Sadly, its still the case with majority of the so called progressive families. I live with 5 other roomies who want their wives to do some small job so that they will not be idle and become nagging, suspicious hags...nothing more...the dreams of that girls have doesn't mean anything to them and should be restricted to every thing that are provided to them...
Sacrifices should be done by both parties with regard to the situation not according to the "established norms".
Hmmmm...a standard MIL...one would think...what i would like to know is the husband's point of view on this.
@ "Does it matter",
I certainly cannot say that she is lucky..... but as the saying goes... "once bitten, twice shy".
I dont know about her MIL, but yes attitudes can change..... and so can people.
I'd like to believe that...
The truth is: saas aati hai saans jaati hai!!!!!!. (universal truth)
nice one..thought provoking. not sure what i'd do if im in that situation. if my partner earns real high, i dn't mind staying back home - taking care of babies ( it has to be 5+ in number), reading blogs and putting comments to, and read the books that i can't due to office, work etc. can wash cloths but real afraid of cooking...i'd do one trick..i'd cook real bad for few days untill she says - 'ok, i'd stay home, go n continue w yr office work..........jokes apart, it's peer/parent/social pressure in india, that sometimes makes it diff. to think of someone as h/husband. in our country, the scarcity of jobs/ social insecurity is also responsible...e.g. if i leave my prsent senior engg position (i m working in a multinatinal), there's no surety i 'd get another job after , say a gap of 2 yrs...any gap is going to be a -ve factor in my probability of restarting a career....this's the reason, why we guys can not think of leaving the job...is there any high (v high) income fairer sex who's looking for a h/ hubby? i m there:-), i smell well, eat less, talk nonesense for hours, but keep silent when solving a prob, cooperative, hrd/working, humourous..list is endless.
anyway gr8 that the DIL could continue her career..i m sure the MIL is also haapy 2 see her in job.
I read this post yesterday and wanted to leave a comment but didn't as the voltage in my house was low and I had to shut off my pc!
Anyway, I wanted to say that this is a great post and you write really well. I like the way you have quoted this bullying lady and interspersed it with your own comments. As you said, these decisions are best left to the couple and parents should not interfere. If she had suceeded in brainwashing her son, the couple's marriage would have been in jeopardy. And if the lady had given up her job, as you said it would have causes bitterness and resentment and yes it would have certainly been a sacrifice. In such circumstances you cannot be an ideal mother. I am sure this young woman can be a better mother if she is happy and fulfilled and not pressurised to do what she doesn't want to. In fact there is no reason why she cannot be a better mother than the majority of stay at home moms.
That said, I think only those women who are very sure that they want to be at home and with their children should do it, without any pressure from anyone, including society. Such women will not think of being a stay at home mom a sacrifice and will make great mothers!
I hope when I get married if I quit job it will be on own terms and wish not some unwilling sacrifice! Nice post.
apu I thank god that last paragraph happened!
Rockus 'Sacrifices should be done by both parties with regard to the situation not according to the "established norms".'sums it up :) If only everybody understood this!
Pinku I only know of the son through the mother, which makes him sound - not good, but maybe he is just being tactful, trying to be tactful... :(
I know the girl's family is strong and I really doubt if they would allow their daughter to be bullied.
anser azim I think both the in laws, saas and her husband, were party to this here ... otherwise maybe this happens because saas does not have a happy relationship with her own husband, if she was occupied and at peace with herself, she would leave the kids alone. Just a thought.
Z@kir-r What is happening is, I see many such couples, that both work and one takes a job that can be left easily, and they move with the one who is serious about her career ...
a home maker can be a man or a woman, housewife and househusband are terms we can make obsolete :)
Nita Thanks :)
And I am sure that girl would have eventually walked out, out of sheer
frustration. And comparing her to herself, thirty years ago, was also unfair.
Reema You will and this is not wishful thinking, I have seen if you know or realise this is wrong, you will automatically prevent it from happening to yourself.
IHM - i think this issue is between the couples and no one else!
you know recently i started writing for this website and i get a paid a piddly amount of money for it, but i get paid. it was all very exciting! getting paid for something you like.
i tol my MILs very excited. you know what she said? "Ab aisa hi kuch karo. kam paise mile toh bhi chalega, par ab ghar baith ke bacche ka khayaal rakho!"
and it was my life's biggest WTF moment! till date i have never been terribly upset with her. i am blessed with an ability to ignore.
i was like she doesnt even KNOW how well or not well i manage both! she has NEVER offered to help even in crisis. then who the heck is she to make such a sweeping statement.
recession hit hubby's job and having my low paying job at least made sure we didnt have to dip into savings till he was back on!
i wonder if she would take back her words! :)
c'est la vie!
you know its like that story where two friends are chatting. one of them i saying my poor son is stuck with a horrible wife. she makes him cook, clean and share all the houseowrk. and in next breath says but my daughter is very lucky! her husband helps her in everything and even makes tea and breakfast everyday! :p
cheers!
abha
Mama Mia Yes absolutely an issue between the couple.
About your working from home and taking care of Cubby, it was a sad, frustrating WTF moment. Even if there is some regret there is very little chance that it will be expressed. It is common to blame women for working and also for not working!
The story of two friends discussing sons and sons in laws sums up our attitudes and the reasons behind the attitudes!
Makes me mad.
By the way Congratulations for writing for a website and being paid for it! You must do a post on this!! It's like being paid for something you anyway love to do :)
the last para - LOL. i do find it offensive how people assume that the woman can/shld give up her job . . .
IHM, I hope you won't mind it very much if we link you in on our Purr Blog Of the Week at the 3 Mad Moggies....
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